Legislature(1993 - 1994)
01/17/1994 08:30 AM House FSH
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
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= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON FISHERIES
January 17, 1994
8:30 a.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Carl E. Moses, Chairman
Representative Harley Olberg, Vice-Chairman
Representative Gail Phillips
Representative Irene Nicholia
Representative Cliff Davidson
MEMBERS ABSENT
None
OTHER MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator Suzanne Little
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
Overview: Federal reauthorizations including the Marine
Mammal Protection Act, the Magnuson Conservation and Fishery
Management Act, and the Endangered Species Act
WITNESS REGISTER
CARL ROSIER, Commissioner
Alaska Department of Fish & Game
1255 W. 8th Street
Juneau, AK 99802-5526
Phone: 465-4100
Position Statement: Commented on and gave brief overview of
the Marine Mammal Protection Act, the
Magnuson Fishery Conservation and
Management Act and the Endangered
Species Act
RON SOMERVILLE, Special Assistant to the Commissioner
Alaska Department of Fish & Game
1255 W. 8th Street
Juneau, AK 99802-5526
Phone: 465-4100
Position Statement: Commented on and gave brief overview of
the Marine Mammal Protection Act, the
Magnuson Fishery Conservation and
Management Act and the Endangered
Species Act
DAVID BENTON, Director
External and International Fisheries Affairs
Alaska Department of Fish & Game
1255 W. 8th Street
Juneau, AK 99802-5526
Phone: 465-4100
Position Statement: Commented on and gave brief overview of
the Marine Mammal Protection Act, the
Magnuson Fishery Conservation and
Management Act and the Endangered
Species Act
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 94-1, SIDE A
CHAIRMAN CARL MOSES called the meeting to order at 8:45 a.m.
He noted all members in attendance and asked COMMISSIONER
CARL ROSIER to begin his overview of the federal
reauthorizations.
COMMISSIONER CARL ROSIER, ALASKA DEPARTMENT OF FISH AND
GAME, (ADF&G), began by giving an overview of where the
state was relative to the federal reauthorizations. He
stated that the state would probably see a delay in the
reauthorization of the Endangered Species Act. The earliest
date would be late 1994 or early 1995. The Magnuson Act
looks as though it may come up in Congress by late summer or
early fall of 1994. He stated there were other federal acts
absorbing Congress's time, such as the Clean Water Act, and
these would delay the three Acts the state is focusing on.
The Marine Mammal Protection Act (MMPA) is currently being
addressed in Congress.
COMMISSIONER ROSIER stated that the Citizens Advisory
Committee (CAC) has been very active on the Marine Mammal
Protection Act. They adopted the "coalition" draft as a
working document. The coalition, comprised of commercial
and environmental interests, produced a draft containing
amendments for the MMPA.
COMMISSIONER ROSIER remarked that the Citizens Advisory
Committee has been working very well. There has been good
participation. The department is in the process of
selecting members from the CAC to go to Washington, D.C., to
lobby for the recommendations developed for the MMPA.
REPRESENTATIVE GAIL PHILLIPS asked Commissioner Rosier if
the delays in the reauthorizations placed the state in any
jeopardy with the federal government.
COMMISSIONER ROSIER replied that the delays did not place
the state in jeopardy.
DAVID BENTON, DIRECTOR, EXTERNAL AND INTERNATIONAL FISHERIES
AFFAIRS, ALASKA DEPARTMENT OF FISH & GAME, gave an overview
on the Marine Mammal Marine Protection Act. He said the
Citizens Advisory Committee was convened to first address
the Marine Mammal Protection Act. The negotiated agreement
between commercial fishermen and environmentalists became
the working document for the CAC and is referred to as the
"coalition" draft. The CAC forwarded comments to the U.S.
Senate prior to their introducing a Senate draft for the
MMPA. The CAC helped to shape this document through their
comments.
MR. BENTON stated that on November 9, 1993, the United
States Senate introduced a version of the Marine Mammal
Protection Act amendments and the CAC then used this draft
as a primary document. The CAC inserted their consensus
recommendations into the Senate draft with comments of
explanation and forwarded the entire document to the U.S.
Senate.
MR. BENTON outlined the major points addressed by the CAC in
the MMPA:
1) How do we deal with particular problems which may exist
in species of marine mammals before they are listed as
threatened or endangered or depleted?
The coalition draft chose to deal with this issue under a
section entitled "INCIDENTAL TAKE TEAMS". These teams would
be charged with looking at all the available information on
a particular species and then develop a plan for incidental
takings in commercial fisheries. The plan would then be
forwarded to the Secretary of the U.S. Department of
Commerce, in an attempt to solve any population problems
before they became critical.
2) The authority or discretion afforded the Secretary of
the U.S. Department of Commerce is another issue of concern
to the CAC.
The interaction of the Secretary with the Take Teams is
addressed by the CAC. The CAC believed the Secretary's role
should be clearly defined and the process should allow ample
checks and balances for the Take Teams membership.
3) The issue of whether there should be a federal fisheries
registration system was addressed by the CAC.
The CAC did not want the Secretary to have broad authorities
to duplicate registrations and require other kinds of
regulations on state fisheries or to place observers on
board vessels.
4) The composition and the role of the Incidental Take
Teams caused considerable debate in Alaska.
The draft placed the subsistence taking of marine mammals in
the middle of the taking section. Subsistence takings are
addressed under a separate section in the MMPA; the
reauthorization deals specifically with takings in the
commercial fishery. The other area of concern with the
original draft was in their suggesting that oil and gas,
barge traffic, tourism and other activities should be
considered under the Take Teams section. The CAC attempted
to refine the language for the Take Teams and focus them
where they should be focused. There are people from the
subsistence community, the commercial fishing community and
the environmental community who still do not agree with the
language drafted by the CAC.
MR. BENTON stated the plan in Congress is for the U.S.
Senate staff to look at the comments it has received on the
MMPA and determine how much more work they will perform on
the committee bill and possibly introduce a committee
substitute to clean up some of the language.
REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS asked Mr. Benton if support had been
sought from other states relative to limiting the powers of
the Secretary.
MR. BENTON stated that he felt there would be fairly broad
support from other states with the exception of the
Democratic Administration's influence relative to staff and
a more sympathetic attitude toward the agency.
MR. RON SOMERVILLE, SPECIAL ASSISTANT TO THE COMMISSIONER,
ALASKA DEPARTMENT OF FISH & GAME, stated that the department
has worked very closely with the Western and International
Association of Fish & Wildlife agencies. These agencies do
not generally get involved with marine mammals to any large
degree, but they have been supportive.
REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS asked if the federal cutbacks are
affecting our negotiations on the federal reauthorizations.
COMMISSIONER ROSIER responded that he did not think the
budget reductions would affect these negotiations.
MR. BENTON referred to the National Marine Fisheries Service
budget. He stated that he thought the critical items of the
budget would be funded.
REPRESENTATIVE CLIFF DAVIDSON asked why the word
"incidental" was deleted from the section entitled
"INCIDENTAL TAKE TEAMS".
MR. BENTON responded that this was not an expansion of the
takings, but this taking was an allowed taking under
commercial fisheries and the numbers were to be utilized for
the stock assessment evaluation.
MR. SOMERVILLE stated the steller sea lion is now listed as
threatened in Alaska and it may be upgraded to endangered.
He said one of the criticisms toward the National Marine
Fisheries Service is they have not focused on resources in
trouble before they reach the critical point. The
Endangered Species Act contains a void in information, and a
determination of the health of a particular resource cannot
be determined prior to its reaching a critical stage.
REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS asked who the department anticipated
would be involved in their lobbying effort.
COMMISSIONER ROSIER responded, at least Ron Somerville and
David Benton from the department, as well as a couple of
members from the Citizens Advisory Group will go to
Washington the end of January.
MR. BENTON stated they would probably have to go back to
Washington again by the end of February to keep the MMPA on
track in the House of Representatives.
MR. SOMERVILLE stated there had been hearings on the
Magnuson Act last year and they anticipate having a United
States Senate draft on Magnuson by March 1994. Both chairs
in the House and Senate have stated that if anyone wants
changes in the Magnuson Act, they will have to justify the
changes. Alaska will be in a defensive posture of
protecting their interests on the North Pacific Fisheries
Management Council process. Washington and Oregon want to
increase their membership on the council.
MR. BENTON stated that Alaska is in a good position and
Senator Stevens has a very good relationship with Senator
Hollings, who is chair on Senate Commerce. Also,
Congressman Young has a very good relationship with
Congressman Studds on the House side. There will be an
attack on the council process. Washington state wants more
representation. There are proposals circulating that would
require a three-quarters majority vote which would tie the
council's hands. There may be attacks from certain elements
of the environmental community, and possibly consumer groups
and others, who are more concerned with the overall process.
These elements see the council as being dominated by fishing
interests without broad representation of other kinds of
interests. The state is not sympathetic to mandating by
statute, certain types of representation.
MR. BENTON continued that the Washington Congressional
delegation sent a letter to Secretary Brown asking that the
council be given one more chance to pass the comprehensive
Individual Fishery Quota (IFQ) program for all the fisheries
off Alaska and if they did not, Secretary Brown should do
it.
REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS asked for a copy of that letter.
MR. BENTON stated that about a month ago, a similar letter
came out of Mr. Turner's office, the Washington Department
of Fisheries, regarding the Community Development Quotas
(CDQ) program and was reflective of the lawsuit that emerged
against the program.
MR. BENTON continued, another issue that will surface prior
to the reauthorization of Magnuson, is by-catch. Senator
Murkowski introduced a bill just prior to the Christmas
recess that would strengthen the conservation components of
the Magnuson Act and would actually enable the councils to
charge off and do something about by-catch. This bill has
set the tone, but is not strong on the detail. Senator
Stevens is also looking at a bill that would set up a system
that forces the National Marine Fisheries Service to deal
with by-catch, waste, and discard. This may actually come
out prior to the reauthorization of Magnuson.
MR. BENTON said fees on the offshore fisheries will be a
large issue. Certain consumer groups are looking for a
means to collect fees from fisheries within the Exclusive
Economic Zone (EEZ.)
RON SOMERVILLE stated there has been considerable pressure
to reduce the powers of the council and to increase the
powers of the Secretary to override the council
recommendations.
TAPE 94-1, SIDE B
COMMISSIONER ROSIER emphasized there has been a lot of
manipulation of the decisions of the council once they get
into the bureaucracy of the National Marine Fisheries
Service. The state has had some major problems in this
area. The waste issue will be a major issue.
REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS asked who the chief advisor to
Secretary Brown is?
MR. BENTON answered that it was Tyson, the owners of Arctic
Alaska. Tyson has a fair amount of influence in the
Administration and Congress. Rollie Schmitten is the newly
appointed director of the National Marine Fisheries Service
and will play an increasingly important role in the
Administration, in terms of advice on these issues. He was
the regional director for the NMFS in Seattle. Another
person who plays a significant role is Doug Hall, deputy to
the head of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric
Administration (NOAA.)
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIDSON asked what was being done about
appointments to the council.
COMMISSIONER ROSIER stated that the Governor's Office is
accepting applications from anyone who is interested in
applying. There are two seats to be replaced; they are
currently held by Oscar Dyson and Rick Lauber.
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIDSON asked who the Administration was
looking at in terms of who they preferred for these seats.
COMMISSIONER ROSIER said that he did not believe that had
been determined by the Governor's Office.
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIDSON asked if Mr. Tillion was being
considered for either seat.
COMMISSIONER ROSIER stated that he was fairly confident that
Clem Tillion would be one of the candidates.
REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS asked if the Acts could be
reauthorized for a period longer than three years?
COMMISSIONER ROSIER replied that it was largely a matter of
the issues associated with the Act and it was unlikely that
anyone in the public would support a reauthorization period
exceeding three years.
REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS asked if attempting to lengthen the
reauthorization to longer than three years would be a viable
option.
COMMISSIONER ROSIER responded that it was relative to the
level of contention surrounding the issues of
reauthorization. The issues surrounding these particular
reauthorizations seem to be too large to attempt extending
the length of the effective date of the Act.
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIDSON asked about the opposition to the
CDQ program and which groups there might be from the
Washington area to support Alaska's interests in this
program.
COMMISSIONER ROSIER stated that there was no known support
within the state of Washington and that he was not aware of
any efforts from the state to contact Native groups within
Washington for support. However, there has been contact
with environmental groups in the Washington, D.C., area.
There has been considerable lobbying for support of the CDQ
program in Washington, D.C., by Alaskan Native groups and it
has proven very helpful.
RON SOMERVILLE stated there has been significant
communication on the Endangered Species Act with the Pacific
Salmon Commission, through Deputy Commissioner Chuck Meacham
and also through Native groups back in Washington, D.C.
The department has also worked with the International
Association of International Fish & Wildlife agencies for
support on the Magnuson Act.
MR. BENTON informed the committee about the activities being
conducted through Health and Human Services and the
Department of Labor. John Bullard has a special office with
NOAA, and has a specific charge to look at ways to promote
programs for sustainable development in communities. He is
looking at the New England situation with the collapse of
the fisheries and the economic dislocation within the
communities. The CDQ groups have spoken with Mr. Bullard
about the CDQ programs.
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIDSON emphasized the importance of the CDQ
program and encouraged the department to seek all the
necessary support to ensure the continuance of the program.
COMMISSIONER ROSIER informed the committee that last year,
the department was required to get a Section 7 permit for
the southeast troll fishery because of the handful of fall
Snake River chinook harvested in the fishery. It appears
they will have to go through the process again this year,
and the federal government may be looking at a much higher
percentage than last year, which would have a very negative
effect on the southeast troll fishery.
REPRESENTATIVE NICHOLIA asked if Henry Mitchell still served
on the North Pacific Fisheries Management Council?
COMMISSIONER ROSIER stated that Henry does not currently
serve on the council, but that his name is being circulated
as one of the possible appointees.
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIDSON asked if this means that Henry
Mitchell is being considered by the Governor for appointment
to the council?
COMMISSIONER ROSIER replied he was sure that Henry had
submitted an application for appointment
ANNOUNCEMENTS
CHAIRMAN MOSES thanked the department for an excellent
presentation. He announced the House Resources Committee
had extended an invitation, through Chairman Williams, for
the House Special Committee on Fisheries to attend a hearing
on SB 132 (loans for IFQs) at 8:00 a.m. Friday, January 21
in Room 124. Phil Smith will be giving a briefing on the
implementation process for the halibut and sablefish IFQ
program prior to the actual hearing of SB 132. Chairman
Moses informed the Committee of their next meeting, which is
scheduled for 8:30 a.m. on Wednesday, January 19.
ADJOURNMENT
There being no other business, Chairman Moses adjourned the
meeting at 9:55 a.m.
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